Legislature(2009 - 2010)BARNES 124

04/14/2010 03:15 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ SB 234 EXTEND ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL BOARD TELECONFERENCED
Moved HCS CSSB 234(L&C) Out of Committee
+ SB 243 GEOTHERMAL RESOURCE:ROYALTY/PERMIT/FEE TELECONFERENCED
Moved HCS CSSB 243(RES) Out of Committee
+ SB 277 PUB. UTILITY EXEMPTION: RENEWABLE ENERGY TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
         SB 243-GEOTHERMAL RESOURCE:ROYALTY/PERMIT/FEE                                                                      
                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
4:06:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON  announced that the  next order of business  would be                                                               
CS FOR SENATE  BILL NO. 243(FIN), "An Act  relating to geothermal                                                               
resources;  relating to  the  royalty  obligation for  geothermal                                                               
resources; transferring from the  Department of Natural Resources                                                               
to the Alaska Oil and  Gas Conservation Commission authority over                                                               
permitting and  inspection of geothermal  wells; providing  for a                                                               
regulatory cost  charge for geothermal  wells; and  providing for                                                               
an effective date."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
[Before the committee was HCS CSSB 243(RES).]                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:06:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  PAWLOWSKI,  Staff,  Senator  Lesil  McGuire,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  stated  that SB  243  really  "opens the  door  for                                                               
commercial development  of geothermal  energy in Alaska  and puts                                                               
that development under  a regulatory regime that  exists in every                                                               
other  state that  is an  oil and  gas producing  region.   Under                                                               
current law,  geothermal resources would  pay a 10 to  15 percent                                                               
royalty  rate.     When  the  state   originally  considered  the                                                               
appropriate  rate, the  sponsor contemplated  the rate  should be                                                               
zero since  the product is  hot water,  is not exported,  and any                                                               
royalty would  be passed on  to consumers  in the form  of higher                                                               
electric  rates.    However, after  working  with  Department  of                                                               
Natural Resources (DNR),  the sponsor agreed that  the leasing of                                                               
land  for geothermal  resource actually  is the  equivalent of  a                                                               
"property right" so some form of royalty made sense.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI referred to  page 1 line 12 and to  page 2, line 8,                                                               
which  refers to  the  proposed royalty  rate  for geothermal  in                                                               
Alaska  on state  land  of  1.5 percent  on  the  gross value  of                                                               
production,  during   the  first  ten  years,   and  3.5  percent                                                               
following those ten  years.  This royalty rate is  the same as on                                                               
federal land,  he noted.   The goal  was to achieve  a reasonable                                                               
rate that comports with the federal  land and does not create any                                                               
real competition.   A 10 to  15 percent royalty rate  was written                                                               
20 to 30  years ago, and was  "picking a number out  of thin air,                                                               
not knowing what makes geothermal economic."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  PAWLOWSKI explained  that  the other  sections  of the  bill                                                               
divide the authority between the  Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation                                                               
Commission (AOGCC) and the Department  of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                               
to regulate geothermal  resources.  He referred to  page 2, lines                                                               
9-15, to Section 3 to  the commission's authority over geothermal                                                               
wells, which read:   "The commission has  jurisdiction under this                                                               
chapter  over  geothermal  wells  to prevent  waste,  to  protect                                                               
correlative  rights, and  to ensure  public safety."   He  stated                                                               
that  this  language provides  the  regulation  of the  drilling,                                                               
exploration, and actual use of the  resource.  The DNR would have                                                               
control over the  leasing, the unitization, and  land issues that                                                               
DNR typically performs with oil  and gas matters.  The geothermal                                                               
system  would be  very  similar  to oil  and  gas management,  he                                                               
stated.  This  change should save the state money  since DNR does                                                               
not have  in-house expertise to  carry out what  he characterized                                                               
as an outdated  regulatory system.  More  importantly, looking at                                                               
the map  that shows state  land ownership, under current  law DNR                                                               
has  authority over  state  land but  there  might be  geothermal                                                               
development that  is not on state  land.  He explained  that only                                                               
the AOGCC can  regulate to protect the public safety  on all land                                                               
outside state lands.   That change represents  the critical piece                                                               
to ensure  safe development of  a renewable energy  that actually                                                               
pays a royalty to the treasury.   He paraphrased from the sponsor                                                               
statement, which read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Electric power generated from geothermal sources is a                                                                      
     clean, sustainable, and environmentally friendly                                                                           
     alternative to fossil fuels. It can play a major part                                                                      
     in meeting the future energy needs of the railbelt and                                                                     
     other regions.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     The problem for any company seeking to build a                                                                             
     commercial grade geothermal plant in Alaska is high                                                                        
     capital costs that run 25-50 percent higher than the                                                                       
     Lower-48. Operational costs could run 100 percent                                                                          
     higher than the rest of the country.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Senate Bill 243 assists companies in developing                                                                            
     geothermal resources discovered in commercial                                                                              
     quantities on state land by lifting the 10 to 15                                                                           
     percent royalty payment obligation currently in state                                                                      
     statute.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     SB 243 is a common sense effort to make geothermal                                                                         
     power projects economically viable and produce more                                                                        
     affordable and reliable electric power for homes and                                                                       
     businesses.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Geothermal electrical generation has been used for                                                                         
     decades all over the world and creates "green" jobs.                                                                       
     Alaska can now join other states and nations using                                                                         
     geothermal sources to create a safe and secure source                                                                      
     of electricity.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     I urge all my colleagues to support SB 243 and move                                                                        
     our state towards a secure energy future.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:10:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T.  WILSON  asked  whether  this  bill  regulates                                                               
geothermal resources on private property.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI answered that the  regulation on private land would                                                               
be subject to AOGCC.  It  would not apply to the royalty sections                                                               
since the state does not own the subsurface rights.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:11:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI  explained the  House Resources  Standing Committee                                                               
made  a  change that  set  an  important  policy provision.    He                                                               
referred to  page 7, to  proposed Section 17, and  the definition                                                               
of commercial  use.   He read:   "(1)  commercial use"  means the                                                               
sale of heat or  power to a third party;" which  he said does not                                                               
affect personal ground source heat  pumps that people may use for                                                               
their  homes  or  for  small  scale  geothermal  energy  use  for                                                               
personal use."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:12:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HOLMES related  that she did not  think the change                                                               
creates  any  problem,  but  if somewhere  "down  the  line"  the                                                               
resources are being  deleted, the problem could be  dealt with at                                                               
that  time.   She thought  this change  represented a  reasonable                                                               
step at this point.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
4:12:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T. WILSON  asked if  she  has a  business on  her                                                               
property and uses the geothermal  resource whether that use would                                                               
be considered personal use.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAWLOWSKI answered yes, that  since the person would be using                                                               
the geothermal  resource for his/her  own use and is  not selling                                                               
the  heat  or power  that  the  use  would  not be  considered  a                                                               
commercial use of geothermal energy.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
4:14:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CATHY P.  FORESTER, Commissioner,  Alaska Oil &  Gas Conservation                                                               
Commission  (AOGCC), Department  of  Administration, stated  that                                                               
the AOGCC strongly supports SB 243.   She explained that the bill                                                               
would transfer from Department of  Natural Resources (DNR) to the                                                               
AOGCC  a  function that  is  more  appropriately handled  by  the                                                               
AOGCC.   She offered her belief  that the DNR also  supports this                                                               
transfer.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:14:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PAUL THOMSEN,  Director, Public Policy and  Business Development,                                                               
ORMAT Technologies, Inc., stated that  ORMAT was delighted to win                                                               
the leases  at Mt. Spur and  is excited to develop  a large scale                                                               
commercial  geothermal project  near Anchorage.   This  bill will                                                               
move  us forward  in  developing that  project  and reducing  the                                                               
royalties to  the federal level  brings the royalty taxes  on par                                                               
to  allow projects  to compete  with resources  in the  Lower 48.                                                               
Additionally,  SB  243  will  help  "pave  the  way"  to  develop                                                               
additional geothermal resources in Alaska.   He stated that ORMAT                                                               
Technologies  strongly supports  SB  243.   He  commented on  the                                                               
previous  discussion  on  commercial  applications.    This  bill                                                               
reduces an  existing royalty  rate of 10  percent to  the federal                                                               
level.  He offered that people  would pay a 10 percent royalty if                                                               
the project is  defined as commercial.  He indicated  that in the                                                               
event the use is not defined  as commercial, the owner could take                                                               
comfort that he/she will be  taken care of with Senator McGuire's                                                               
amendment that was previously adopted.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:16:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN BANKS, Acting  Director, Central Office, Division  of Oil &                                                               
Gas, Department  of Natural Resources  (DNR), explained  that DNR                                                               
has  been   "saddled"  with  the  responsibilities   of  managing                                                               
geothermal  land.   This bill  surgically carves  out of  the DNR                                                               
statutes the  ones that are more  appropriate to the AOGCC.   The                                                               
bill does not  add any further regulation, but  would provide for                                                               
safety and  correlative rights and conservation  of the resource.                                                               
This bill also creates a relationship  with the AOGCC and the DNR                                                               
that is  similar to what the  DNR shares in oil  and gas matters.                                                               
He offered DNR's support for this bill.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:17:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OLSON,  after first  determining  no  one else  wished  to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony on SB 243.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:18:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON moved to  report the HCS  CSSB 243(RES)                                                               
out  of   committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  the                                                               
accompanying fiscal  notes.  There  being no objection,  HCS CSSB
234(RES) was reported from the  House Labor and Commerce Standing                                                               
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                              

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
CSSB234(FIN) Sponsor Statement.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 234
CSSB234(FIN) ver S.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 234
Draft CS to SB234.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 234
Apr 14 Packet Info.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB234 ABCB Audit 2009.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 234
SB234 ABCB Audit Summary.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 234
SB234 Fiscal Note-DPS-ABCB-02-24-10.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 234
HCS CSSB243(RES) ver C.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
CSSB243 Changes in HCS CSSB 243 (RES).pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
SB 234 Letter - ABADA.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 234
CSSB243 Changes to SB 243 in CS SB 243 (FIN).pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
CSSB243 Corrected Sectional Analysis version P.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
CSSB243 Geothermal Briefing Paper.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
CSSB243 Akutan Support Letter.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
CSSB243 Geothermal Royalty Rates.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
SB0243 Fiscal Note-3-1-040210-DNR-N.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
CSSB243 Ormat powerpoint to Senate Resouce Hearing 11-Mar-10 ver0 (2).pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
CSSB243 Royalty Sheet.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
SB0243 Fiscal Note-4-1-040210-ADM-N.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
USGS Geothermal Packet.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
CSSB277 Supporting Documents Letter CIRI to Chenault 4-1310.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
CSSB277(RES)am ver P.A.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
SB277 Changes to SB 277 in CSSB 277 P version.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
SB277 Leg Legal memo 2-12-10.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
SB243 Sponsor Statement.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 243
SB277 Leg Legal memo RCA 2-16-10.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
SB277 Leg Research Report on Regulation 3-5-10.PDF HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
SB277 Letter APA 3-8-10.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
SB277 Sponsor Statement.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
SB277 Supporting Documents Competitive Electricity Markets_Feb2008.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
SB277 Supporting Documents Letter CIRI Response to APA letter_3 19 10.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
SB277 Supporting Documents RIRP IPPs and Renewables.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
Draft Amendment SB277.PDF HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277
Draft CS SB277.pdf HL&C 4/14/2010 3:15:00 PM
SB 277